Ship It Conversations: AI Automation for SMBs: What to Automate (And What Not To) (with Austin Reed)

Transcript

Bye. Bye. Hey, I'm Brian Teller. I work in DevOps

and SRE, and I run Teller's Tech. Ship It Weekly

is where I filter the noise and focus on what

actually matters when you're the one running

infrastructure and owning reliability. Most weeks,

it's a quick news recap. In between those, I

drop interview episodes with folks who are actually

building in the space. Today is one of those

interviews. I'm joined by Austin Reed from Horizon

.dev. He helps small and mid -sized businesses

save serious time with AI and automation. And

this isn't theoretical. We talk about what actually

works when you're automating real workflows with

real revenue behind them. not just demos. We

get into the biggest misconceptions, why projects

fail more from communication than code, where

human in the loop makes sense, and what tools

his team is using behind the scenes. From GPT

and Claude to Cursor, CICD, and code review bots.

Today, I'm joined by Austin Reed. Austin Reed,

your automation expert with Horizon .dev. He

helps SMBs save serious time with AI and automation.

And we're going to talk about what actually works

in the real world, not just demos. Austin, nice

to meet you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you,

Brian. I appreciate it. So I'm curious, what

do you do? day -to -day in your job? Man, a little

bit of everything. I do a lot less programming

nowadays than I did when we started. When I started,

it was just me and my ex -business partner, Mattel.

We were just keyboard warriors, always programming,

me and him. And I would do sales and accounting,

whatever. But nowadays, I mostly manage the team,

lead the team. I hire people. I help the team

with project structure and architecture. I help

debug. more advanced problems. Sometimes I jump

into code, but it's not that often. But I'd say

the majority of my time is with client relations

and on sales calls. What is the real unlock or

benefit for AI and automation for small to medium

businesses right now, in your opinion? Well,

I guess it would depend on what area of the business

you're talking about unlocking, right? Every

business is unique with its own problems. Some

businesses, you know, they would really benefit

by having some sort of sales automation, sales

AI enablement, right? Helping them generate more

leads or helping them to where they don't drop

leads or helping them with statistics on that

side of things. Other businesses, they have that

unlock and they would benefit more from fulfillment

side of things, making sure everything is tight,

everything's efficient, working properly. There's

not any errors going on. AI can be used. across,

I'd say, big portions of a lot of businesses.

Most businesses, I mean, they essentially function

the same. They take in some sort of customer,

they service the customer in some way, or they

give them some sort of product, right? And then

there's the, after you turn in the project, like

transition period, right? Where you get like

referrals on the back end and stuff. And so adding

AI in any of those core areas, I think really,

really helps. 100%. Yeah, that makes sense. So

what would you say is like the biggest misconception

that companies have when they say, we want automation,

but they don't necessarily know what that means,

right? They want automation. They want to move

quicker, maybe, but they don't necessarily know

what automation is or what that actually entails.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's two. One, on one

side of things, you have people who think that

AI is going to cause more problems than it's

going to solve, or they don't trust the quality

of AI. They don't have... a firm belief in the

powers of what it can do and on the other side

of things they're definitely too gung -ho to

get things done i i find the biggest issue is

usually around some sort of content generation

so they want to automate their instagram they

want to automate their video creation things

like that and so they think that ai can just

do everything and another thing is they also

think that because there's ai and everything's

easy we have things like cursor and stuff now

that It's really easy to build these things.

And so like they think it's going to cost like

a couple hundred bucks or a thousand bucks to

get a system that's robust enough to like manage

the business. It's like, hey, you know, your

business is working like. $100 ,000, $200 ,000

worth of sales a month. And you honestly think

that like a $300 product is going to be able

to sustain that. That doesn't really make a whole

lot of sense, right? So you have a lot of these

problems. It's just underestimating and overestimating

their capabilities, depending on what side you're

on. And then definitely overestimating how cheap

it is. Yeah, no, that's fair. Okay, so I know,

like we talked about this a little bit, depending

on the company, there's a lot of different...

automation wins. But what, based on your experience

for companies, what is the most popular or common

win for automation? Okay. Yeah. So it's going

to be one of two things. Usually it's either

on the customer service side of things, or it's

going to be on the sales side of things. So specifically

for B2B businesses. it'd probably be more on

the sales side of things like i said automating

lead flow increasing the amount of leads you're

reaching out to enabling your bdrs sdrs aes to

be able to do their jobs even better that drives

a massive amount of impact in sales organizations

whereas just two years ago like sdrs bdrs they

were sending 50 100 emails a day they were handwriting

the emails right now Then they moved on to doing

sequencers. And so then all of a sudden they

were sending thousands of emails, but they were

all templated with spin tax, whatever. And now

it's all AI generated. And I know businesses

that are sending millions of emails a month,

which is absolutely insane, right? On the other

side of things, you have the customer service.

And it really kind of depends, but like you could

imagine your mom and pop dental shop, like. They're

not always there to answer the phone. It would

be nice to be able to call on like Saturday at

six when people are busy or maybe people aren't

working and be able to schedule an appointment

without having somebody there needing to take

the call, right? And so that also translates

to a chatbot or an email responder. It's essentially

the same thing. It's just the medium of which

you communicate changes. But the AI is still

doing the same thing. It's taking schedules,

doing follow -ups, taking information, you know,

filling out forms and stuff so that the customer

service side of things is on point. Is there

any part of a business right now that you specifically

try to not automate or you stay away from automating?

Yeah, I'd say one, finances. And I don't think

it's because it's bad to automate finances. I

think it's just because I'm not the best finance

person. So because I don't understand it at a

very intimate level, I tend to stay away from

it. And I don't mean like automating like your

accounts receivables and whatever. No, I mean

like actually automating like statistics and

things like that with accounting. Like I don't,

I'm not an expert at that, right? The other thing

I stay away from. Firstly, is anything medical

or HIPAA related? I don't want to touch, right?

Because yeah, same thing with government. I don't

want to touch it. But in terms of business, I'd

say mostly just finances and the things that

really require a personal touch or somebody overlooking

it. So we'll do something called men in the loop,

which is like, maybe we'll do an automation,

but then a human has to approve it. So the human

edits it, approves it, says it's good, right?

So for very bespoke services, you know, it's

always good to have that little bit of human

touch, right? So you can have some automations,

but the automations, they don't do the job. They

enable the person to do the job better. So it

sounds like you're using AI as a tool. It's not

replacing someone too. I mean, that's kind of

an important point. Like if you're an expert

in something, you can use it to help further

along. development or use as a tool, but you're

not replacing the individual. It's not because

you don't understand finance. It could potentially

hallucinate, right? So you don't want to just

recklessly use a tool without knowing what the

output could be. Right, exactly. And so I guess

the reason why I'm really good at automating

sales and customer service and different fulfillment

things is because I intimately understand a lot

of those problems because, you know, I have those

problems within my own business. I'm not saying

I don't have finance problems in my business.

I totally do. But I'm like not looking at that

as well. I'm more focused on the day -to -day

operations, right? So yeah, no, I totally agree.

Not replacing the individual is key. I mean,

even like with my assistant, like every once

in a while, I'll be like, hey, what do you spend

most of your time on every single day? And she'll

tell me, I'll be like, hey, well, let's take

this off your plate, but let's add this new thing.

You know, now that you have more time, now that

you have more leverage, let's make the... return

on time even greater for what you're working

on. Now that makes sense. Is there anything that

you've gone to automate with AI that's backfired

that you're willing to talk about? I mean, I'm

going to say not really in the sense of it backfired

because it wasn't a good automation. And the

reason why is because before we dive deep in

automation, we had already been a programming

agency for a while. So we already knew the capabilities

of what we we'd already been through the crap

right like we've already made a lot of mistakes

and learn from them and whatever but i would

say the ones that have failed most of the time

they don't fail because of the job they fail

because of communication or improper vetting

of the client or just clashing personalities

is it ever where they don't maybe give the right

spec on what they actually need or they're not

even sure of what the output is that they need

i mean that happens a lot we've gotten better

at identifying that problem so by first of all

don't automate something that hasn't happened

yet you know When we first started out with automations,

there was a lot of people that were like, oh,

we're going to have a lot of demand in February,

so we need to build this system so that when

the demand comes, we'll be ready to go. And then

February comes and there's no demand. It's like,

okay, so you just spent $10 ,000 on a system.

That doesn't help you. It doesn't make sense,

right? And so I always try to make sure that

there's actually a need there. And I think also

the way we build kind of weeds some of that out.

So we always like a lot of business owners. common

they're like oh we want this and this and this

and this and that it's like a huge menu order

of like a restaurant menu of what they want right

and that's cool but we're like okay that's cool

but how about we what's the most impactful quick

win we can do for you right and so we'll start

with that that one impactful thing and then we

give it to them as quickly as possible so we

work a lot with cicd framework i don't know if

you know what that is but basically we'll develop

a small prototype as quickly as we can as best

as we can and we'll give it to them as quickly

as they as we can in order to get feedback on

on how that is because maybe like you know we

build an automation but then it doesn't quite

work the way that they wanted or maybe the owner

has this great idea but then when the team members

get their hands on it like their reality is a

little bit different because the owner isn't

doesn't have his head in the trenches, so he

doesn't know exactly what their day -to -day

looks like. So we always try to get... MVPs and

prototypes in the business owner's hands as quickly

as possible so that they're able to play around

with it and test. And then as we stack on more

features, you know, we get feedback like, hey,

we like this. We don't like that. We'd like to

change that. And it would be cool if we could

add this. We're like, OK. And so we can start

adding those little tweaks early on instead of

having a project where it's like, OK, cool, we'll

get it done. And then two months later, we turn

something in. That's not what they wanted. Right.

What's the tech that you're generally using behind

the scenes to build these automations? You're

talking about like the code itself or like the

tools we give our developers? The models, the

code, APIs. Everything? AWS, yeah. Is it more

like AWS? Are you using like Gemini models? Are

you using Claude models? Yeah. Yeah. We use a

lot of GPT and Cloud. So I find Cloud is a lot

better when it comes to sales and anything writing

related, you know, like blog posts or customer

service. Like Cloud is just sounds more human

for some reason. I don't know why. GPT is a lot

better at analytical things. GPT Codex 5 .2 that

just came out is really good. We've been using

that with Cursor to build. apps. So that's been

helping out our development team a lot. We've

also been experimenting with having AI review

pull requests that programmers are implementing

into code bases to see if it's good or not. And

it's been working quite well. That's been quite

interesting. We've been thinking about implementing

even a bot that whenever somebody adds an issue

to GitHub, it'll maybe do a code to see what

it looks like. And then the developer just reviews

the code and edits it. We know that AWS has a

a service that does that. We haven't fully implemented

that part yet, but we're definitely experimenting

with it now. So, I mean, there's definitely a

lot of changes in the industry. And then in terms

of like servers, we don't use AWS or Google as

much unless the client already has it. We actually

prefer to use Volter, which is digital, same

thing, right? I mean, same server stack, same

technology, just a different name. And a lot

cheaper, I would say. We use a lot of Kubernetes,

a lot of Docker, Docker Swarms, Django, Node

.js, NNN, yeah. Has there been any technical

challenges that you've run into with building

out these automations? One thing is getting credentials

from the customer. I know that sounds simple.

Yeah, I've run into the same issue. Yeah, it

sounds like a simple thing. It's more of a customer

service problem than it is like a programming

problem. But I mean, a lot of these people, they

don't even know what their passwords are. So

it's like trying to get, or like you made a custom

app and you need to get into their Google console

to add whatever. And it's like, that's... That's

difficult to do with some of these people who

aren't as tech savvy, right? Anything else that

I find makes it particularly difficult? Scope

creep is totally a thing. Definitely have to

push back on that. People get overly zealous

about things. That's why we always try to, we

record all our meetings. We always try to put

project plans right. So this is what you agree

that we build, you know, so make sure everything's

very transparent. But even with that, scope creep

comes in sometimes. And then other than that.

I mean, at first we didn't, there were some clients

where we had trouble fully understanding what

their vision was, but I think that was more an

experience than it was actual, actually a problem

because now we don't see that as much because

we have a lot more things in place, like making

sure like there's already something to automate,

giving them the prototype first so that we can,

right. So we flushed out a lot of those issues.

How do you handle? the this is scary or I don't

trust AI reactions pushback that you may get.

Well, I mean, if they came in from a cold email,

I'll be like, well, who do you think wrote the

email? No, that's a hard objection. And for a

lot of people, that's pretty hard to know because

they just have some sort of mental block there.

And, you know, I'm not here to convince people.

If they don't want the automation or if it doesn't

serve them, I mean, it will serve them. if they

truly don't want it like i'm not gonna sit there

and try to convince somebody otherwise like i'd

much rather go to the guy who's like super pumped

and excited about getting some new things done

in the industry that hasn't been done before

you know like that's much more exciting but i

guess where we see some of that pushback is like

in a business where it's like an old father and

he's passing it on to the son and so the son

wants to implement these new things but the father's

like no like the old way works why would we change

it You know, we see some of that and they're

usually a quick win. Something super small and

kind of insignificant is the best way because

you can talk to them all you want. But when you

actually show them something, it really works.

So even just showing them a case study, but like

really running through and be like, hey, you

know, this. Similar business, different industry

and problem or whatever. Like, hey, look what

we did there. This is what it looks like for

them. We can do this for you. And they're like,

oh, really? Is that possible? I'm like, how about

we start small? We'll do something really small

and quick, you know, quick win. It won't cost

you very much. It won't take a lot of time. And

you can just get your feet wet and see if you

like it. Where do you think AI is going? If you

had your crystal ball, where do you think like

three, five years? Obviously, it's a changing

market. It's crazy. The last couple of years

have been crazy. Yeah. If you were to hypothesize

that, where do you think it's going? Well, AI

influencers is already a thing, even though people

don't fully believe it yet. I think that software

agencies are going to, a lot of them are going

to go out of business. because business owners

are going to be able to make software themselves

so you're going to see a big flood of apps and

new stuff coming out because there's going to

be a bunch of normal people launching their own

apps and so maybe the new game is more sass related

and less programming related i still think there

will be programmers but i feel like it'll only

be like very advanced niche stuff or old stuff

like like like cobalt right for banks or something

but so yeah i think At least my industry is going

to, like, we need to pivot hard because, like,

engineers now are not, I mean, they know code

now, but maybe in five years they'll still know

code. But in 10 years, they might not know how

to program, you know, and that's kind of weird.

Outside of that, man, I think it's very good

and very bad in a lot of ways. And it's really

hard to say. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, just like

the car did, the horses that will probably open

up new jobs and, you know, maybe business use

cases that. we're not even sure of yet you know

but yeah it's definitely interesting is there

any hype takes about ai that that you disagree

with or you want to kill i don't think ai is

quite to the point yet where you can fully automate

social media i mean you can for like those info

talking head videos not talking head but like

the ones where it's like they say a story like

you know oh this person went missing in 1994

because whatever like yeah those can be automated

but i mean like truly valuable content i don't

think can be automated to a high enough quality

extent yet right i think that's coming i think

it's close but i still think that there needs

to be that human element the other thing is is

because we're posting so much ai content now

the ai is just rewriting ai content yeah so it's

just learning from itself at this point So as

time goes on, I believe the information gets

more and more diluted. And that's a problem in

and of itself. I think that kind of covers it,

at least my view. I know just being on LinkedIn

even, but more so Instagram, Facebook, TikTok,

it's all AI -generated Sora content now. A lot

of it, yeah. It's hard. It's hard to just have

real, genuine content that's not AI -derivative.

Yeah. To be real. It cuts through the noise pretty

well. So we talked about this a little bit earlier.

How do you think AI is going to influence development

in the future? I mean, now we're using Cursor,

right? We're using MCP servers to get information

on Kubernetes clusters or whatever. But we don't

have new junior engineers that are getting hired

at the same rate they were just a couple of years

ago. What happens to engineers and developers,

you know, in the next five, 10 years? They become

prompt warriors or they switch industries, right?

I mean, even our guys, like I handed them Cursor

like a couple months ago. And before that, it

was like Microsoft Copilot, right? Like two years

ago, something like that. And even Microsoft

Copilot. Like, dude, the difference in productivity

between my guys was insane when I gave them Copilot.

It was like, it's not like they don't know how

to write code. It's just that they can write

it so much faster. They can be like. I want this,

this, and that. And there's a huge difference.

It's like I see a lot of business owners who

don't know programming, who try to program with

Cursor, and then they jump on Cursor, and it

doesn't work. Cursor sucks, blah, blah, blah,

and it's horrible. And I'm like, you don't know

how to talk to it. It's really what it is. I

mean, there are some things like, yeah, it probably

isn't the best app, but understanding how to

architect. how to describe how it works with

data, what order to build things in. That's huge,

right? Because, you know, you get a certain database

model set up, certain APIs set up, and all of

a sudden you add something crazy in the mix and

you have to redo everything, right? And so it's

like a lot of people just jumping in like they

don't know that. So to answer your question,

man, I mean, like I said, we're implementing

AI more and more. All of our dev workflows, we're

implementing it in code review and debugging

and our CICV type of stuff to make sure that

nothing broken gets pushed. We're implementing

it and helping them even. on issues you know

they get an issue they talk to cursor cursor

spits out some code they review some of the code

they write some code themselves they tell it

to write a certain function a certain way they

sip their coffee they wait they test it you know

and for testing too it's huge for like unit testing

and integration testing like you write out a

whole api in django and then you're like hey

unit test this you know integration test this

like that's huge the speed of which it can write

out some of that code that, you know, before

it would take, you know, weeks is insane. Yeah,

I agree. I know for me, being able to vet the

output that Cursor gives you and not just trusting

it, like you mentioned business leaders that

may go use Cursor for the first time, but they

don't really understand what they're, even understanding

what to ask, but then understanding what the

output is that they're given. Like you need to

have some awareness around that, at least currently,

maybe in the future you won't to the same degree,

but right now you, you know. it still can hallucinate.

It could still mess up. So you need to know how

to frame the question in the right way so it

gives the output that you want, but then also

vet the output that it's giving you. And if you

don't know anything about the subject that you're

asking it to help with, you don't know if it's

a good output or not necessarily. Right, exactly.

Any closing thoughts? Not really. I think the

world's going to change a lot really quickly.

And we're along for the ride. Everybody needs

to pivot. Every business, every industry needs

to pivot, not just ours. Right. So the faster

you can kind of get on board and start testing

new stuff, I think the better off you're probably

going to be. Yeah. Be ready for it because it's

coming regardless. Like you'd even mentioned,

you know, the father and the son, the father

may not want AI. He probably is talking to an

AI chatbot on a website every day. He's probably

getting phone calls from AI chatbots. He just

doesn't know it. He's already interacting. He's

already in that world. He just doesn't know.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, appreciate it. Thank

you, Austin, for coming on. Really appreciate

it. I appreciate it, Brian. Definitely. All right.

That's the conversation with Austin Reed from

Horizon .dev. My biggest takeaway is his framing

that automation isn't magic. The win is picking

a real pain point that already exists and getting

a quick win live and then iterating. Also, the

AI is cheap now mindset is a trap. If your business

is doing real volume, you need systems that can

actually hold up with guardrails, approvals where

it matters, and someone who can sanity check

the output. If you want to connect with Austin

or check out what they're building, I've got

links in the show notes to his LinkedIn and to

horizon .dev. If this episode was useful, share

it with a DevOps, ops, or business friend who's

trying to automate workflows without creating

a bigger mess. Hit follow wherever you listen

so you don't miss the weekly news recaps plus

these guest interviews. We'll be back with a

regular Ship It Weekly News episode later this

week. See you then. Thanks.

Ship It Conversations: AI Automation for SMBs: What to Automate (And What Not To) (with Austin Reed)

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